Peep This...

[Deleted]

So, I'm looking around the forum - checking things out - when I come across the Devil Fruit Section. There were 2 Fruits awaiting approval (3, technically, but I'll get to that later) and I noticed something. Shade's Devil Fruit, the Suga Suga no Mi, was looked at before Randy Savage's Devil Fruit, the Antei Antei no Mi. Now, while I like Vio's swiftness in getting to the latest member's Fruit application, making the forum look really good in that regard, it's kind of unfair to Randy to get to someone else, who posted their Fruit after her, within the same hour of them posting it, while she's been waiting for about 3 days. If a discussion is going on behind the scenes on Rand's Fruit, don't you think she deserves a post telling her to hold on for a second? Like, just as a courtesy before you go and start reviewing someone else's app, so she wouldn't feel neglected. =O

My other concern is: why was EriChar's post in kabutop's Fruit app ignored? While we all love and respect Char for all of the work he's put in, and for just how cool he is in general, that shouldn't have flew. He's not a staff member right now. I remember seeing normal members get "screamed on" and warned (like an official warn bar-type warning) for posting in Fruit app's with replies quite as helpful and kind, like Char's. I just feel like you shouldn't be allowed to get away with certain things based on your reputation. A rule is a rule, and while I'm not suggesting that every rule should be enforced in a strict and cutthroat manner, it should still be referred to when necessary.

On a side note, I've been sensing a lot of negative attitude in places that it's uncalled for. Like, I understand people go through things that stress them out in life, but if you're ticked in the wrong way, or "not in the mood" for fun, I only have one question for you...

[EriChar]

In regard to the issue regarding myself, as the shiny name I can choose to turn on and off as I see fit demonstrates, I am not a member but rather an advisor. This is a rank reserved for experienced but retired staff so that they can keep up to date with staff issues and intervene in conflicts where they see fit. Thanks to the long time service they have provided, Kuro has been happy to let these members retain a simple set of powers (Thread moving/locking etc) since their judgement is trusted, and we are permitted to access the staff board and comment on or create the topics of discussion there.

I'll admit, it was my goof to throw myself into a thread without turning on my 'service light', but the reason the staff will not have intervened is because whilst not being an official member of this party, I have been helping them with issues here and there ever since my 'retirement'. Mostly, the reason that I rarely turn on my shiny shiny name is because I think it paints a 'false' staff target on myself, which I find is unfair to both myself and the people who see it. New members may see the different colour of the username and assume I am here to help, and while that is true to a point, without the obligation that accompanies full staff-ship I have no interest in fixing every problem on site. I suppose you could call me something of a mercenary of staff work. I intervene when the 'price' is right, but ignore when it is not.

---

As a semi-retired staff, and therefore a semi-member, I shall offer my own personal opinion on the tensions and see where that gets us? Whilst much of it is flavoured by my own experiences as a staff, you should bear in mind that this is not a staff opinion, and simply a reflection of my own feeling toward the site. For some time, rules have been being bended and even broken in the chat, and this is frustrating the staff. Similarly, due to this frustration, perhaps members who commit minor offences are being dealt with more harshly than they feel is justified. Ultimately, from my perspective, this is all down to breakdown in respect and discipline. Staff are being treated like a commodity that the members can use when they wish, and abuse when they feel rubbed up. Too often I see a staff member having a conversation in the chat, and someone coming up and expecting them to drop everything and help them. This isn't limited to new members who don't know better, either. Many experienced members who have been here months and even years seem to just throw their weight around and expect to get results.

Personally, when people do that with me, I feel like trampling them under my heel. So, is there any wonder that staff members are getting more defensive and even taking steps to avoid places like the chat when all they see the place as is a source of stress? When I was a staff member, I would actively avoid the chat in a great many of my times online, simply because when a staff member walked in, they seemed to be treated more like tools than people. Hell, toward the end I needed to put in my chatango profile that I choose when I brainstorm with people in PC, and my being online was not an excuse for people to hurl ideas at me and expect me to fix them? Ultimately, the complete lack of consideration and respect I was shown by members was one of the biggest reasons I took a step down from staff, because when one works tirelessly every single day to keep a site running and all you get for it is more work accompanied by a healthy dose of shit, suddenly your life doesn't seem so rosy. With that in mind, you'll have forgive me if I don't believe the sun shines out of the back side of this membership.

Ultimately, what members should bare in mind is that staff here are volunteers. They are not here getting any kind of reward for doing your dirty work, other than keeping the site running. Try to remember that when you're badgering a person that probably only came into the chat to unwind, or when you're launching into a hate campaign against someone because they refused to allow you some triviality in your profile. I can appreciate your passion and the sense of disappointment, but I've seen a lot of places where profiles are outright denied for a lot less than the stupid stuff people have attempted to gain here? So yeah, maybe don't give a person grief just because they're doing you the decency of trying to come to a compromise that works well for both the site as a whole and yourself? This sight has plenty of amazing members, but it also has far too many awful ones, if you ask me.

And finally, the gif. That is actually an excellent question that I have been asking myself a lot lately? As you may be able to sense from the tone of this post, my feelings toward the site and its membership are not at the most positive point right now? There are a great many days where I have questioned why I am here, and even on the good ones I struggle to come up with many reasons to justify it. Ultimately, there are a few people on this site I genuinely enjoy, and that is about all the reason I find to remain here on the less good days. It isn't the responsibility of any one person to make this place enjoyable to be in. It isn't Kuro's job. It isn't the staffs job. It isn't even the member's job. It is everyone's job. So, in my opinion, everyone needs to get over themselves and work toward making this place a good site again, before the notion is lost forever.

[Deleted]

Okay, now things are becoming a little more clear to me.

It's understandable that when people continuously nag you for something and always expect you to be "on duty," as if you were some type of robot, it can get frustrating. Yeah, BV has its share of members that nag for all types of things. As a normal member, I have been - and have seen other people - get pressured for a post as if people feel like posting everyday. Sometimes, when I come online - even if I owe a post - it's just to chill in the cbox or read a couple of interesting threads, in and out of RP, to get a feel for what's going on outside of my little sphere of activity. While my time as a staff, here, wasn't nearly long enough for me to have felt the pressure of the older staff, I've been various degrees of staff on a very active forum before, including the head honcho. The pressure feels akin to what I previously stated but multiplied a few times. The people who treat you like tools need to be given a "reality check," but not in an aggressive, angry way; more like in a calm, level-headed manner. If they continue to be obnoxious, that's when I see fit to just ignore them and let them go about that reaction in whatever way they feel. Sometimes, you just have to ban a fool. =O

That pressure can lead people to doing things that aren't really favorable to themselves. For example, Mizu used to request to get banned from the cbox just to finish up a character/post (at no quicker rate than if she weren't banned, mind you =P) just because Gaz was being a spaz. That's no shade. Gaz is my bro, but I had to talk to him about that because I know Mizu wasn't feeling good throughout the whole process of having herself banned and then still constantly getting asked "when, when, when" by him. Blaka used to ask me when I was going to post in our mission every time he saw me in the box, until I basically stated, in a calm way, "I may never post." This may be a little off subject, but to be honest, I made that thread thinking I just needed to force myself to post more, but that's a formula that I've come to find doesn't mix well with the cocktail that I'm made out of, so to speak. I may get to it at some point, but if he changes his mind about it by then, then so be it. As a staff member, if someone's so picky and mad that you don't jump when they say jump, then let them ragequit or whatever. Who cares? No one wants an angry spaz around them anyway. It'd be best for the forum if that person left rather than a cool dude, like you, leaving, or giving up his staff position, just because of those handfuls of rotten apples. We should purge and let them purge themselves.

Almost every time I see that your name isn't "shiny" anymore, I ask you why. BV deserves and needs cool, dedicated members like you, especially among the staff. I would just hate to see some of the best people for the forum leave because of the "spoiled" bunch, and it is a concern of mine because certain attitudes are crossing over to innocents that don't deserve to be treated that way. I would like to see the "problem children" buried, and would gladly flesh them out myself if any of them came across me the wrong way. I want to see a forum with staff and members alike that are giving off cool vibes. Imagine if BV were a big clubhouse in Kuroro's backyard. We need to calmly tell the people who bring negative attitudes into this positive, fun zone to go home and don't come back until they're ready to have fun with everyone else. Also, of course, use the ban hammer when necessary, but that gets put to good use already.

[Deleted]

I might regret posting this, but I'm just going to put this here since this wasn't exactly a great thing to wake up to:

I've been a staff member for about a month now, and during that time there's maybe been one or two days where I have not been dealing with a member who thinks that outright insulting me is the proper response to not getting exactly what they want, or not being allowed to break the rules. I can't speak to the experiences of my fellow staff members, but if I've ever seemed like less than a ray of sunshine, it's probably because I've been dealing with someone who, at best, refuses to cooperate, or at worst, is being blatantly abusive toward me. And that person is usually still in the cbox at the time, chatting about video games or whatever with the rest of the members.

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say that this thread makes me kind of unhappy. Not in a "You're breaking a rule," sense, but it's very illuminating, maybe even indicative of, how I'm beginning to feel I'm viewed as a staff member here. While I encourage anyone to raise any concerns they may have, you've chosen two pieces of absolute minutiae to harp on. Char gave you a pretty good explanation of the second part, which leaves us with...what? A thread was checked out of the order it was posted in? That's worth calling us out over?

Here, have a gif.

[Deleted]

This is not a thread to call anyone out, it is more to flesh out. These aren't just my concerns, but those of people who feel they get less attention on these subjects than I do, and I'm here to just clear all the tension up because I feel/see it plain as day, even if its unspoken. That makes me feel some type of way. I'm glad that my first post pulls out the emotions deeper down within you, so that we can bring it to light and let it fly away into the sky, like a once caged bird. Read my second post - if you missed it. I ninja'd you a bit there. =O

[Randy Savage]

I definitely feel like there seems to be a community of hostility. I can’t count the times I’ve asked a question in the cbox only to be met with some sort of threat immediately afterward. That’s part of the reason I’ve started asking questions, even simple ones, on the board directly. At least that way it seems like people take a moment to think about their response. That should have especially been the case with my most recent question in the cbox, which led to a ban. My fault though for taking a shortcut in my own personal rule.

Sometimes it feels like new blood is treated like some sort of bad guy or boogeyman. Not just me either. I’ve seen plenty of new members ask questions only to met with snide remarks and accusations. It’s really unattractive to see and could very well turn me off to the cbox for the rest of my time here. I think it’s cool that others are able to foster their bonds there, but sometimes it seems like it’s ONLY for the older, ‘sekrit club’ members and anyone new can flak off. My love for Randy is strong and that's the only reason I'm here; to RP as Randy and enjoy creating a story with her and the other interesting folks on this board. It’s just confusing, to me, the way some things are handled and the way people get talked about when they think no one knows or is listening.

Is it bad that I wasn’t going to post in this thread only because I was worried that it would be used as ‘ammunition’ against me later in order to hold a grudge or level some accusation? I don’t know what went on in the site before but there are obviously some old prejudices and feelings that have an effect on how people react. It’s hilarious sometimes, the way questions are answered. It reminds me of that comedy skit of one guy walking up to another on the street and asking him a question, only for the bigger guy to turn around and be all “What did you call me?” and punch him in the face. There are only a couple of staff that I’d consider personable and approachable. Others though seem like they’re always on the defensive. Like every little comment is aimed at them personally and every criticism is a chance for them to ‘show themselves.’

Anyway, the thing with Char is just another little thing in a long list of assumptions that the older members are aware of and are thought of as common knowledge, but are nowhere to be found on the site. These are the kind of questions that I feel, if asked in the cbox (and perhaps buy a member not as ‘established’ as EJ) the user would’ve been lambasted and bullied out of the box. Over time, sure, all of these little rules are being added, but it’s a shame that it’s happening retroactively, after someone gets scolded for not knowing something then points out there are no rules for it.

[Deleted]

Randy, you were given a cbox ban for repeatedly breaking rule 7, not for asking questions. Please don't misrepresent the situation. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[Vio]

Our rules are placed for a reason and, more recently, a lot have been breaking or bending them. It's no secret, but we're cracking down harder. You're entitled to make mistakes - everyone does it - but when it starts generating snide retaliations and other such issues? That's when it's stepping too far. Everyone gets fair warning, and repeated offenses result in bans - if you won't learn from mistakes, then obviously you'll require harsher punishment. That goes to everyone, new members, old members, retired staff, current staff.

This past week alone, I've come online only to see and hear about misbehaviour, complaints and problems arising. A lot of our regular staff members are stretched thin due to real life, so people need to be patient and respective of those around them. It's more annoying that I'm rarely online when this stuff kicks off, mostly due to timezone differences, and I've had enough of it.

All the active staff members are stressed out because of these ordeals, because people don't seem to read the rules, or pretend they have done so. I try to be open and understanding to each case, to be there when needed, but apparently that keeps falling through?

If anything, this thread just seems to add fuel to a fire that was steadily turning to cinders. I appreciate all points of view, EJ's and Randy Savage's especially, but all the issues you've brought up are ones we are - or I am - trying to fix! Blatant disrespect for staff members when they try to offer warnings, advice or assistance? Intolerable. I don't expect anyone to break rules, when staff are present or not.

Kurosaki already posted up an announcement about R-E-S-P-E-C-T a few days ago in regards to issues like this, so I suggest everyone read it and read it again.

Questions can be asked, of course, but it's wisest to read the rules thoroughly first and then judge what you need to ask. If something's not clear, then ask and tell us what it is? Staff or other members will help. If there's any blatant disrespect flying around, come to another member of staff, such as myself, and we'll try and sort it out. However, let it be known to everyone reading this that I've had enough of it all. I will listen to all sides of the story and judge accordingly.

Preferably from this point on, if anyone has issues with other members of staff or members, I would like you to privately message me on the forum. Please don't do it in private chat, but through PM. Understood?

[Randy Savage]

Oh, i meant to mention this in my previous post but it slipped my mind after I ranted a bit. This is true to the “suggestion” portion of this board. I believe that no rules talk or deliberations should happen in the cbox. Like when people are talking about their perspective DFs in there? Not good; it is usually hard to garner creative criticism and also leads to the ‘too many cooks’ issue. Sometimes people might ask for a clarification on the rules in there. That might sound like an easy question but usually opens a can of worms; if the answer isn’t liked it leads to debate. If more than one person answers and it isn’t the same answer that can lead to an argument.

In other boards I’ve admin’d and moderated on, those sort of conversations were quickly ruled out of the Cbox. Whenever people can ask those questions, with it comes the expectation to always be able to go there for a prompt and proper response. The cbox should be a place to relax--for those that are able--and chat with people free from the stressors of the normal rigmarole of the site. If it’s implied you can openly ask questions that require the ‘work hat,’ then people will and others will a lot, seemingly asking in the box instead of doing any research of their own.

Of course there is the plot and brainstorming channels. Those are great! I think that, when used consensually, they can be a rather fantastic boon. Consensual is the key word here though. Otherwise, I strongly feel that all questions, concerns, or wonders that there is an ‘official’ answered expected should be leveled into the site questions of the board. Furthermore, I say the site questions and not a PM so that way it would reduce further questions and facilitate a more comprehensive FAQ doc in the future.

[Deleted]

See? That's what I posted this thread for: to get answers; answers that people weren't communicating properly. Also, just to find out where all the negative vibes I was feeling was coming from. Without Char expressing himself, he would've left eventually. Without Batter expressing himself, he probably would've quit staff - maybe even the forum eventually. There's no reason staff should be getting pushed to the point where their hobby is seeming like your everyday 9 to 5. Knowing what's ailing them can help put an end to it because keeping quiet really was not.

Hearing Char's feelings, I suggested some positive ways to handle what was really bothering him, yet people came in focusing on what they can label negative because they're already rubbed wrong. I just want everyone to see that and know that so that we can get rid of that. Whoever's abusing Batter with every little step he makes really needs a talk about "chilling out." Same with whoever else is pressuring staff left and right.

Some may feel like this thread is adding fuel to the already existing - but was kinda dying - fire, but every fire burns out eventually. With these matters brought up, what can really be used as fuel anymore beyond this point? This is the difference between keeping things hushed and fleshing them out.

I like that idea, Randy. It'd keep the arguments on those subjects down to a minimum, if anything, and prevent people from feeling/getting disrespected further in the cbox.

[kabutop]

Well I figured I'd give the newbies view on this; Right of the bat it seemed fine and the first group of people I met seemed fine great and so I was motivated to make a character.  Though after a day at a point I scrolled up in chat and saw people talking quite negative about me, yes it wasn't anything major and quite mild and was more aimed at a fruit and not me it still felt quite personal like I had just been somewhat back stapped blah blah. This Rubbed me up the wrong way and left a kinda bitter taste in my mouth. 

Sometimes when asking advice in the chatbox,[Using correct channel] You get certain people just say don't do it, these aren't for you.. in such a way it comes across like this [Your 2 stupid, so you can't make these]. when things like this are repeated it really annoys me and most likely would anyone. So so far my backs been somewhat put up.

Don't get me wrong there are some really nice people, and most are alright [Don't know everyone]. Now I have roleplayed on quite a few roleplay sites and never had this sort of negative vibe hit me, and well its somewhat motivated me to just not bother with the site.  Yeah I am still somewhat here though I haven't recommended my friends this place yet which might make it impossible to roleplay not sure if solo roleplaying is possible here.

Thread is a bit of an eye opener. Anyway going stick around for a bit, see if its worth inviting people or not .

[Deleted]

Sept 4, 2015 20:10:50 GMT -5 kabutop said:

Well I figured I'd give the newbies view on this; Right of the bat it seemed fine and the first group of people I met seemed fine great and so I was motivated to make a character.  Though after a day at a point I scrolled up in chat and saw people talking quite negative about me, yes it wasn't anything major and quite mild and was more aimed at a fruit and not me it still felt quite personal like I had just been somewhat back stapped blah blah. This Rubbed me up the wrong way and left a kinda bitter taste in my mouth. 

Sometimes when asking advice in the chatbox,[Using correct channel] You get certain people just say don't do it, these aren't for you.. in such a way it comes across like this [Your 2 stupid, so you can't make these]. when things like this are repeated it really annoys me and most likely would anyone. So so far my backs been somewhat put up.

Don't get me wrong there are some really nice people, and most are alright [Don't know everyone]. Now I have roleplayed on quite a few roleplay sites and never had this sort of negative vibe hit me, and well its somewhat motivated me to just not bother with the site.  Yeah I am still somewhat here though I haven't recommended my friends this place yet which might make it impossible to roleplay not sure if solo roleplaying is possible here.

Thread is a bit of an eye opener. Anyway going stick around for a bit, see if its worth inviting people or not .

[EriChar]

[Kurosaki]

All the other points aside that have really been addressed, I do agree that we need more respect from members and staff alike. Which is why I've posted my message about having respect for each other throughout the forum. That wasn't just targeted at members and also said that staff members should show respect to the members at all times too while still doing their job. I apologize for whoever was on at the time saying negative things about Kabuto, as that should not have taken place. I've had multiple conversations with people and expressed my dislike of having people treated in that manner. However, unless someone comes to me and tells me who and what happened, I can't solve it directly. My reaction to this is that if you feel that staff are mistreating you... Why haven't you come directly to me and named that individual or those individuals? I have to hear it from others and by that point, a certain amount of time has passed that makes it difficult for me to deal with it. If you have a problem with how you are being talked to, come to me immediately and we'll go from there.